Interview with Tori and Susan of The SoundGirls!

In case you haven’t heard of them before, SoundGirls.org is a support network for women and non-binary people working in the professional audio industry. Women make up just 5% of the professional workforce in audio and music production, and SoundGirls provides an opportunity for women to network, share advice, and provide support to one another while also working to inspire and empower the next generation to enter the world of professional audio and music production.

Each week on the SoundGirls Podcast they interview audio professionals who share their stories and offer tips and tricks from what they’ve learned in their careers. Now, we were able to flip the tables and interview two of the SoundGirls podcast hosts, Susan Williams and Tori McCook! Susan started the SoundGirls podcast back in May of 2020, while Tori has recently taken over hosting duties for the show. We get to hear about their backgrounds, why the podcast was formed, and what we can expect from the show moving forward!

About Susan Williams

Susan Williams is an educator in Winter Park, FL, specializing in creativity and technology at a local university. With a background in theater and film production, Susan has worked as a local theatre technician and independent micro-budget film producer. She holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in Theatre with a minor in Cinema Studies from the University of Central Florida. Susan's career includes working for various theatres across the country, such as the Orlando Repertory Theatre, The Garden Theatre, and the Lake Tahoe Shakespeare Festival. She has also been involved in the film industry as a digital projectionist for the Florida Film Festival. An active member of the Orlando chapter of SoundGirls, Susan is dedicated to supporting women in the audio industry. SoundGirls is an international organization that provides a community for women in professional audio, offering support, advice, empowerment, and inspiration. Through SoundGirls, Susan contributes to scholarships, mentorships, job placement, business development, and workshops, helping to empower women in the audio industry worldwide.

About Tori McCook

Tori McCook is an accomplished Audio Engineer with a passion for empowering women in the professional audio industry. With a Bachelor of Arts in Communication focused in Broadcast Production from Anderson University, Tori has honed her skills in live sound mixing for large events, shows, and concerts. Currently working for the Walt Disney Company, Tori brings her skills and passion for audio engineering to create memorable experiences for audiences. Her strong leadership background and dedication to her craft make her a valuable asset in the entertainment industry.

Listen and subscribe to the Sound Connections podcast on your favorite podcasting apps including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Google Podcasts!

Hello listeners! Welcome to another episode of Sound Connections brought to you by Mainline Marketing in Winter Park, Florida. On today's episode, we talked with Susan and Tori and I had so much fun. It was great to talk to them. It was great learning about what they're doing for female empowerment in the audio space. I really think that comes across in this episode. It was also great to talk to them about being the champions of Mainline Marketing's Florida's Finest Podcast competition and what they were going to do with all of their winnings and all of the things that they got in that. So it was a very educational experience for me. Without further ado here is our episode of Sound Connections featuring the Sound Girls, Susan and Tori.

We are here with Florida's Finest Podcast officially the Sound Girls. Welcome. Would you like to introduce yourselves as champions? I'm going to give you the option.

Susan

Sure.

Pat

Yes, please.

Susan

Okay. I'm Susan Williams. I am the past and current for the next month co-host of the Sound Girls podcast and Tori. She is our up and coming new host of the Sound Girls podcast.

Tori

That's me.

Pat

Fun times. Fun times. So first of all, congratulations. I think that's where we need to start. How does it feel?

Susan

Uh, I don't enter contests very often.

Pat

Does it feel right? I think it probably just feels right.

Susan

Yeah.

Pat

Feels like they made the right choice. Yeah, I would agree with that.

Tori

Most definitely.

Pat

So first thing I want to do is I want to just ask where did the sound girls start? Where did they come from?

Susan

So the organization or the podcast specifically?

Pat

Uh, yes. Start with the organization, but we'll get there.

Susan

Okay. Uh, so, uh, 20, oh God, is it or 2013? It's an odd year in there somewhere. Okay. Um, no, let's say years ago.

Pat

In the twenties in the 20, teens.

Tori

I’ll fact check this.

Susan

Yeah, maybe teens. Yeah, teens. Uh, Carrie Kyes and Michelle Sabalcheck Pentonato, which is a mouthful of her last name, but Sabalcheck Pentonato, uh, Cibola Check Pentanoato.

Pat

Imagine putting that on like a jersey and that would just be, it's a lot. It's long. It's a lot.

Susan

Carrie Kyes and Michelle Sabalcheck Pentonato, uh, they were talking to each other, following, uh, an AES, uh, panel that they had been on with some other people. And that is where they were like, “I have heard of you, but we've never met before.” And that was kind of the theme along the entire, like Sound Girls all together. Like I have heard of you, but we have never met. And so they decided that they needed to come up with some kind of organization or at least something semi-cohesive. So people could connect with each other. And that's how Sound Girls was born. Um, the podcast was born last summer, uh, right about this time when, um, Becky and I had this like level of boredom, I guess.

Pat

COVID boredom. I get it. I get it.

Susan

So we decided, uh, it was her idea. It was a hundred percent Becky's idea. I blame all of this, but we decided I blame all of this on her.

Tori

And she's not here. It's so not fair.

Pat

She can't defend herself, but that's when you blame people for things.

Tori

Exactly.

Susan

So Becky Campbell from before media productions, I'll give you her whole thing. Uh, she was like, “Well, I had to cancel all of my stuff and I'm kind of freaking out because I don't know what I'm going to do with my life right now.” She's like, so do you want to do a podcast? We talked about it before. Uh, and I was like, “Yeah, all right.”

Pat

Didn't know what you're getting yourself into.

Susan

Totally know how to do this. Can't see the face, but it's yeah, we can. Uh, so we asked Carrie because Carrie Kyes is the Sound Girls.

Pat

She's the Sound Girls.

Susan

The Sound Girls. So we had no expectation for her to say yes. And we actually assumed that she probably already had this happening. It's like in the background somewhere, but she didn't have that. And she said, yes, you have my blessing. Go for it. And then we were like, oh snap, we really have to do this.

Pat

We actually have to follow through with this.

Susan

Um, so we, we got a list from Carrie of people that she thought should be interviewed, so she had this huge contacts list, which we have now handed over, uh, because we didn't get to all of the people on it of people that she wanted to have interviewed. It's like 50, 70 people long. It's super long.

Pat

That's crazy.

Susan

Uh, and then we add to it kind of randomly, but she had this list already. So that was easy. We didn't have to work to find people, people, which is probably the hardest part.

Tori

Definitely learning that right now. As we're getting started, it's like your first episode is coming up in two weeks. Who are you interviewing? Yes.

Pat

Someone, they will be here.

Tori

Someone. We have 50 to 70 people.

Susan

But then you have to get them to like, figure out the schedule and all that stuff. Yeah. So then we just did it.

Pat

You just said we're doing it live. You were like rock and roll.

Susan

Eff it, we will do it live. I love it. Yeah.

Pat

I love it. Boom goes the dynamite. So I want to ask you, Tori, how did you find the Sound Girls? You're the up and comer. What spurred this? How did we get here?

Tori

So, uh, during the pandemic, I actually found Sound Girls, uh, cause I was interested in some of their webinars and their training. And I love any training that I can jump on. I'm like, okay, you know, I want to check that out. And over time, you know, I just followed Sound Girls, uh, and a friend of mine who works for Cirque, he recommended, “Hey, you know, you should check out the Sound Girls podcast.” I'm like, okay, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll do that. So I subscribed and as I got notifications, um, I actually did some VO, uh, training and I thought, “Oh man, it would be so fun to be able just to, you know, do something with my voice,” which is, you know, a little obviously different than, you know, being behind the mic instead of, well, in front of the mic, instead of behind the mic. Is that right?

Pat

Yeah, we got it. No, we're on the same page.

Tori

You know what I'm saying? Um, and, uh, then I got an email and said that Sound Girls was looking for a new host and co-host. And I thought, “Oh my gosh, you know, this is like a bucket list thing for me.” I have no expectation. I probably won't even, you know, get an interview. It's like, you know, who, who am I?

Pat

You’re Tori of the Sound Girls.

Tori

And then I get this email. I am, I am now. And I, uh, I was so surprised. I'm like, “Oh my gosh, I'm like one of four people that you're interviewing.” Like, this is amazing. And then when I got the email that I got the host gig, I was just like, it felt so good. It felt so right. And then meeting, uh, Susan and Becky and, uh, my new co-host Katie, I feel like everything just really clicked and there's such a lightness, and there's such a joy, uh, working with, uh, the ladies right now. And I'm just super, super excited to see where this next year takes us.

Pat

So you mentioned that you're stepping away. Is this a personal decision? Is this you're focusing on other things? You're going more producing route. What's, what's the, what's the haps with that?

Susan

This was a planned move.

Pat

Okay.

Susan

So when we decided to make the podcast in general, uh, Becky wanted to build something that we can, um, hand over, like literally hand over to new people. Once, uh, we were done with it. So we figured a year seemed about right. And you know, once work would start picking up again, kind of anticipated, uh, so it's—

Pat

Thank goodness.

Susan

Yeah, so I mean, that's why she's not here cause she's working a gig, which is awesome. Um, so we planned it. It was completely our hope that we would be able to get it successful enough so that we could hand it off to somebody. And then we had inter, uh, we had interviews. We had a bunch of people send like voice samples in, and we heard like, it was at least 20, maybe more people who had applied for it. And, uh, we just listened to voices and met with people towards it.

Pat

Tori’s like, yeah, 20 people who aren’t me.

Susan

So we found people whose personalities we liked because we were the ones who did it.

Pat

You have to gel with the person.

Susan

Uh, and then we picked our people, and Becky and I are helping with the transition because I don't want to ever throw somebody into a fire without help. Like I don't want to do that. So, uh, we're staying on his producer roles for now and we'll probably do that until they don't need us anymore. That's it.

Pat

That's awesome. So what is, I, I've asked this question already, but I'm going to redirect it a little bit. What does Sound Girls do? What is it? What is your tagline? If you had to describe it to someone, what is Sound Girls?

Susan

Sound Girls’ actual tagline is inspire, inspiring the next generation. So the whole goal of sound girls in general is to meet other people who work in the industry and to show them not only is it possible for you to be a sound engineer or whatever kind of sound career that you want, but you can do it. While you're a woman, while you're a person of color, while you're whatever you, you can actually do this job and it is a job to do. So like Sound Girls has reached out to, um, other organizations like Girls Rock Camp, which is, I don't know if you've ever heard of it, but it's little, it's little kids that go to camp, summer camp or winter camp, whichever. And they learn how to play instruments and then they put a show on at the end. And so it's literally little kids. Like it's like rockstar camp for children. It's adorable.

Pat

Kind of awesome. Yeah. So like, I wish I knew about this when I was a child.

Susan

Um, it is called Girls Rock Camp, but it's okay.

Pat

I mean, there might be a boys rock camp. There shouldn't be, there shouldn't be.

Susan

There's a whole Simpsons episode on that. Totally. Um, so our whole, our whole deal is to build up the foundation so that people who come in after us have it a little bit easier than we did.

Pat

Which is an amazing and wonderful goal, especially in today's climate. Do you guys, uh, Tori, I'm gonna start with you just because you, um, are newer to this, do you feel any sort of pressure or is it just excitement to be able to kind of open the door for the next generation?

Tori

You know, it's a little bit of both, honestly. Um, I've always loved just finding, uh, other, uh, other women to empower in the audio industry, um, with my experience so far. So that to me is super exciting and to, um, you know, show that there's possibilities, endless possibilities out there, uh, based on, uh, professionals that have gone before them. Um, but then of course, you know, there's the pressure side where it's like, okay, Becky and Susan have, you know, set the bar up here and, you know, you want to ask the right questions and you want, you want to be engaging and you want to have that connection piece. But you know, the more that I think about it, it's just, um, you know, you just got to be yourself, and you gotta be in the moment and just, um, you know, really get, it's just a conversation with people and to get to know again, these professionals in the industry. And I'm just so excited. This, like I said before, I'm so excited to see where this is going to take us into the next year. And even, um, the next host and co-host after Katie and myself and just how, you know, to see how this whole thing is going to expand.

Pat

What about you, Susan?

Susan

I….I don't feel like you should be, I don't feel like you should be like you have to live up to our standards because our standards were pretty low to start.

Pat

I mean, she said it, they just asked, maybe she's going to say no, she's probably going to say no. Oh crap. We have to do it.

Susan

We have to do it. Um, the, so we entered the Mainline podcast, um, contest. And I knew entering that full well that the stuff that we're winning are going to other people. Like we want to, uh, our plan is to build like a little road case with material and stuff in it so that we can send that to our other people, and they can have decent equipment.

Tori

The other people are excited. Just so you know.

Pat

The level of excitement is very high.

Susan

And then that can continue on posterity down the line. So the next group can get their little podcast kit, and then the group after it can get their podcast kit, and we can just continue passing the baton to the next group. And so that's, that's honestly why I submitted for that. Cause I was like, I am a teacher. I don't have money to put all of this stuff together. Um, so I don't know. That was our cool—

Pat

So how does it feel, Susan, to kind of be like forging a legacy? You're, you were the first host with Becky of this podcast and it's now something that is going to continue to live on past you, and even again and again and again. What does that, what does that point of pride like for you? Cause that's, that's something that's really kind of amazing for this field that you guys are as a, as a female representation. It is so, um, I guess not represented well in this space, but you're already crafting your own legacy. Like how does that feel?

Susan

I…I think about this line from Hamilton.

Pat

I love Hamilton. So hit me with it. I'm ready.

Susan

“I want to build something that's going to outlive me.” Yeah. And I, as an educator in general, I don't take a lot of credit for things that I do anyway, because I'm showing a student how to do something or I'm jumping into like fix it so that everything goes well, and they get the credit for that.

Pat

Right.

Susan

And so that's, I've always been that person. And I think a lot of people who work in the tech industry or behind the scenes, we are—

Pat

Unsung heroes.

Susan

Supposed to be hidden and invisible people.

Pat

All the black.

Susan

Um, so I'm used to that and it was kind of more difficult to put my face and my voice out there than it is for me to hand it over. Oh, if that makes sense.

Pat

That's—I like it though. I like it though.

Susan

We were so terrified of, um, doing something that Carrie didn't like or like pissing people off with our show. And then, uh, so we try to keep it pretty positive, but, um, that was way scarier than worrying about if I'm handing it off and what my legacy is going to be, because it's going to continue as long as people want it to continue.

Pat

Right. Well, I mean, I can tell by the way that Tori talks about it is that you have set a very high bar that she is excited to get to apply herself to and clear. And then the next group gets to set the bar even higher, but just to pivot back to Hamilton really quick. Lin-Manuel Miranda is a genius, not a singer. And I just wanted to get that in audio form so that people can know the way I feel about it. Okay. But I love him, but also he shouldn't sing things. How do you feel about that?

Susan

I feel like—

Pat

I feel like this isn't a hot take. I feel like it's not a hot take. I feel like he sounds a little bit like goofy when he sings, when he's crying, but that's just, maybe that's just the personal thing.

Susan

Like have you listened to his other stuff that he's done?

Pat

In the Heights is, I love it. Yeah. I adore it.

Susan

And Moana.

Pat

Moana's great, but I just don't think he should be a singer.

Susan

He is not like your traditional Broadway, you know, singer in any sense.

Pat

Leslie Odom. No. Yeah. Chris Jackson.

Susan

And those guys are amazing. So it's not like he's those people, but I enjoy the stuff that he does because of his style in which he does it in.

Pat

Tori, do you feel like this is also a hot take? Are you going to be upset at me for my Lin Manuel Miranda takes?

Tori

So I can't be too upset because I've only watched the first 45 minutes of Hamilton.

Susan

What?

Pat

This is the person that you picked to replace you. This is the person I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

Susan

I have been obsessed with that show and the soundtrack since it came out.

Pat

It's so good.

Susan

And then when they put the movie version of it on Disney plus, I was, we were actually out of town visiting my fiance's family. And I'm like, everyone's got to shut up. I got to watch this and—

Pat

Including Tori.

Susan

No, everyone's got to just be quiet. We're going to watch this show, and his daughter. She's five years old, freaking obsessed with it.

Pat

That's great for you.

Susan

So I was like, hell yeah, she sings. She fricking sings along. She knows some of the words, like most of the sounds to the words. You know what I mean?

Pat

Sometimes they get a little, even for me, I'm like, what did they say? I'm not sure. I'm just going to make the noise and then it'll, it works out.

Susan

She, and then after we watched Hamilton and we watched Moana, which again is her favorite, she's five. Um, she's like, that sounds like the guy from Hamilton. And I'm like, no, you didn't.

Pat

You are we, did we just become best friends? I think we did.

Susan

She's like identifying that. And then she's identifying the dad in Moana, um, is George Washington in Hamilton.

Pat

Christopher Jackson. I think that's his, I think that's his name.

Tori

That's impressive for a five-year-old.

Pat

That's very impressive.

Susan

She either heard us say it and repeated it at a very clever time, or she's a genius.

Pat

I'm going to go with genius. I'm going to go on the side of genius just because when I was five, I was like, jelly's dirty. That was my, that was my take on jelly. So I'm going to say that she's a genius when she's like, those two people sound the same, and I was like, jelly is dirty. So we're going to, we're going to veer on the side of genius, jelly, peanut butter and jelly. I wouldn't eat it because I was like, the jelly is dirty.

Susan

So that like jar where it comes all together in the jar together. That's not about it.

Pat

It's not my jam.

Susan

Okay.

Pat

It's not my jam.

Susan

Literally?

Pat

Literally. So happy that that happened. So Tori, what do you have going on via sound? What are you doing right now in the sound space?

Tori

I am currently working as the audio crew chief over at the frozen sing-along at Disney's Hollywood studios.

Pat

Awesome.

Tori

And so that's my main gig right now. Previously, I was audio lead over at the Indiana Jones Epic stunts spectacular and have just worked with Disney for the last ten years. So that's primarily what I have going on. I've done some work with Encore performing arts, which is a local arts organization here in Orlando. And yeah, that's what I got.

Pat

That's kind of awesome though. Any, any personal passion projects outside of Sound Girls that you're looking forward to doing plans for things?

Tori

I'm designing my new apartment. Honestly.

Pat

And interior design? Oh my goodness.

Tori

Yeah. I'm working on, uh, I just bought a really nice bed, but, uh, working on designing my new living room and just, you know, I'd love going into a fresh space and, you know, I'm looking more at the minimalistic side of things. So I'm definitely going through like that spring cleaning purge of all, you know, of all the things. So, yeah.

Pat

I haven’t done that for years now. I need to get better about that. It's a boy thing. It's we just don't—

Tori

You're just a hoarder.

Pat

Yeah. It was pretty much what it is. Jelly's dirty and I'm a hoarder. We're setting the bar for who I am as a person. Very high right now. Everyone's like, how did this guy get to talk it to a microphone with people that know what they're talking about? He's dumb. Susan, do you have anything going on in the soundscape other than the Sound Girls podcast at the moment?

Susan

Uh, I have a full time teaching gig, right? And so I lecture and I teach labs with students and all of that jazz.

Pat

Awesome.

Susan

And so I, after kind of handing over the podcast, I have nothing planned for that free time, which is kind of terrifying.

Pat

For like a little bit, you're just going to kind of kick your feet up and chillax.

Susan

Probably not for very long though. Cause I can't.

Pat

Well, that's the teacher in you, the teacher in—my wife is a former teacher and she can never sit still for more than four and a half minutes. So.

Susan

I'm going from, cause the podcast has been kind of like a part-time job with editing and making the graphics and recording.

Pat

Do you guys do all that stuff internally? Is that you and Becky?

Susan

It was, yes. Uh, we just got some editors though. So the new people don't have to edit. And bless them.

Tori

We lucked out.

Susan

Cause that was the, that was the hardest part and the most time consuming.

Pat

Oh yeah.

Susan

Uh, I used to be an editor years ago, but I kind of had to like brush off my, um, audition, like audition and you know, kind of get those skills back.

Pat

Yeah. It's like riding a bike in the most painful way possible. Yeah. Editing, not, not my favorite part.

Susan

I'm fine at it now. So, so I, after handing over that and then also, um, my other second job, um, I've closed that one out as well. So now I'm going from having like three jobs to one.

Pat

So no time to like a little bit of time. Yeah. That's crazy.

Susan

I don't know what to do.

Pat

I, uh, puzzles, Sudoku. My wife does a lot of Sudoku.

Tori

Word search.

Pat

Word search, also underrated, underrated word search.

Susan

Honestly, I've been reading a lot more, which is awesome.

Pat

Uh, there is a book that is called, uh, dear, I think it's called Dear Hamilton and it's written in a semi historical semi fictional way, but it tells the story of Eliza. So it's from her perspective, all of the things that are happening. My wife and my mother read it and loved it. So that is my recommendation and Tori, watch Hamilton and then read that book. Maybe if you like it.

Tori

I take your recommendation.

Susan

So honestly, most of the songs from the first act are the best ones. Anyway.

Pat

Strong agree.

Susan

Well, I do like the cabinet battle.

Pat

Cabinet battles are good. Gotta love the words. Gotta love the songs. All of them. I'm impressed. This is a challenge. I think she's asking to—

Susan

No, no, no, no.

Pat

Is that what we're not doing? That we're not. Are you sure?

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Pat

So, uh, I want to ask too, as you guys were getting started with Sound Girls, obviously, like you said, winning this, this awesome prize pack from Mainline and from Shure that's going to go into this road kit. What were some of the struggles that you guys had found when you were starting and maybe you didn't have the best sound equipment as the Sound Girls? What were some of those struggles?

Susan

Like those were, uh, many, many struggles. So Becky and I both had our own microphones and interface because I had a failed radio show. So I had equipment left from that.

Pat

That's learning that failure is just learning.

Susan

Well, we were, um, we were going to have a radio show at, for Full Sail University. They were going to have the Full Sail radio. And so we recorded three episodes of hour-long radio shows, and then the whole thing just didn't happen.

Pat

They were just like, nope,

Susan

Like us and a bunch of other shows. So I'm like, all right, I bought some microphones. So, uh, for that side of things, both of us had interfaces and microphones. So we were pretty cool with that, but our challenges were really with working remotely with everyone and going through all the usual, um, recording platforms. Like, um, we started with Zoom, and we hated the way the audio sounded. We tried a bunch of other ones like Skype and like, uh, Facebook phone calls. We, you could record those too. So like we tried all of those things and none of them were like our satisfactory level that we needed because we had to be good because yeah. Sound Girls. Yeah. And people let you know if you suck, they will tell you.

Pat

Has there been detraction? You guys gotten—

Susan

Little bit. Yeah. But because of the unknown, cause we, we can handle our sound and we can have our microphones and our quiet spaces and everything, but the third party, the person we're interviewing, um, they may have an awesome setup or they're just using their laptop microphone. And we actually found that was the case with some of the more higher and like more famous people, they would just use like their laptop sound. And so, and those are episodes that people listen to more, you know what I mean? So I feel like some of the comments we got, we're like, we didn't have them in our studio. Like I can't control if that person wants to just use their laptop microphone. That's their choice.

Pat

That's their prerogative.

Susan

Um, so that was our, that was our biggest challenge. But then we got a service, which we do pay for, uh, that ISO records everything. And, um, it sounds really good and we've had pretty, pretty good outcomes from that.

Pat

That's awesome. What, what mic did you start with? Are you still on the same mic? What are you using?

Susan

At home? I have a road NT one a, and I have no idea what Becky has. She told me a hundred times. I couldn't tell you she's not here. That doesn't matter. Tori, what microphone do you have?

Tori

It's a Shure. Yeah. I have the SM7B.

Pat

Ooh, that's what we're using right now. Is that what you started with?

Tori

It is.

Pat

How do you feel about the Shure SM7B?

Tori

I like it. Uh, I like it a lot. Um, um, yeah, I feel like it captures my vocal well. And, uh.

Pat

Is that what you started with or is that like a level up thing? Did you—

Tori

No, this is, uh, cause I'm like the last time I did VO work was in college, so it's been a while. So this is the first mic that I've actually purchased for myself. So.

Pat

Oh, well that's awesome. I love that. So I want to also gauge. You said that there was some, some detractors or anything like that. Do you feel like that's something that's still very present in the space being that you guys are female and are underrepresented? Do you feel like that's something that is a part of that? Do you think that that's something that's still very prevalent in the space?

Susan

Like the disparaging network, the disparaging nature of just being a minority and a—

Pat

Correct.

Susan

Yes. Um, unequivocally.

Pat

So is that, is that, is there a situation where you've kind of come into to work a job and immediately been discredited because of your gender?

Susan

Yes.

Pat

Tori, have you also experienced something like that?

Tori

Uh, not so much, uh, with me, I tend to be a sponge, so I'll learn, you know, I'll learn from anyone ,and I usually find myself, I mean, I'm definitely in the minority, but events that I've worked shows that I've worked, I feel like I'm usually one, if not the only, uh, you know, woman in audio on the team. So it's for me, not so much. Um, but I feel like you have to, you know, prove that you deserve to be in the role instead of just, you know, you're in the role because you're a woman.

Susan

Yeah. The assumptions that other people get are not the same that we might necessarily get.

Pat

So what kind of, what kind of assumption are you?

Susan

Um, like speaking from my personal experience, it's just generally that I feel more micromanaged sometimes, or like I don't get the assumption that I'm deserving to be in that space. And I actually felt that at this last job that I had that—

Pat

Recently, you had one recently.

Susan

And I'm in my mid thirties and I was just like, I don't want to deal with this anymore.

Pat

What do you do in a situation like that for, for maybe someone, uh, that's listening and I'm sure you guys have covered this a million and two times on your podcast, but what do you say to someone that may be starting in this space or is even in a different space? That's an underrepresented, uh, minority. What would you say to them in a moment like that? What, what is best action?

Susan

Best action is always to be polite because almost anything that you're going to say, um, it probably won't be received positively. So in my recent experience, I tried my best to be like pleasant as pie, which is, uh, a stretch for me in general. Um, but I just eventually was like fed up and I'm like, this is what this is. And I don't, you don't need to talk to me like that. Um, I literally said that.

Pat

That's fair. I mean, I think that that's deserved. Do you guys, um, have, is there a way for someone to contact you guys? If they want to get involved with the Sound Girls, if there's a way to, how do you guys do that form of communication? What's the best way for someone to get a hold of you guys?

Susan

There are a couple of Facebook groups, and that is the main way I think that we interact amongst each other. Uh, so there's a Sound Girls main page, like sound girls org, and then there's the Sound Girls private page, which is a safe space, and that is where you can go in and ask questions and get answers from people right away. Uh, so if there was something that you're troubleshooting, you can literally go on there cause we have thousands of members and probably get an answer really fast. That's been my experience. Uh, and then we also have a Facebook group for the Orlando sound girls. So that one is just local to us here.

Pat

So Sound Girls is a national—

Susan

It is international.

Pat

An international entity. That’s amazing.

Susan

Yes, we have chapter heads across the world. Um, one of our, I think our next biggest one from the US is the, uh, Mexico sound girls.

Pat

That's awesome. Yeah. So is there, do you guys do meetups? Do you do—

Susan

We used to.

Pat

Uh, well, yeah, I would assume it's tough to do now.

Susan

We used to, um, we've had two Sound Girls expos here. Yeah. In town, uh, which Mainline was wonderful and supported us in a lot of that in full sale as well. Give us a space and Mainline gave us gear and people, which is beautiful. Um, so we have done those things and we will again. Uh, but obviously pandemic times we've, we've struggled a lot, a little bit with that.

Pat

Pandemic times. Always a bummer.

Susan

Yeah.

Tori

Always a bummer. Tori, how did you find out about the sound girls? Was this something that you were,

Susan

I can't believe it was last year. Like what? You didn't know about a sooner. Yeah, bro. I'm shocked. How did you, I'm not mad. I'm shocked.

Pat

Well, she's not mad. She's just upset. I mean, such a huge difference.

Susan

Sound girl in Orlando, like.

Tori

But apparently we knew of each other. Well, cause you had a brief stint over at Disney, and our paths never crossed, but I trained your professor on audio over at Epic.

Susan

Yeah. My, um, my mentor and college professor for audio and like the reason that I do this job, she trained at Disney when he started working. Isn't that crazy?

Pat

Never one time we're in the same building at the same time, locked eyes from a crowded room. Like never?

Tori

No, we have never met in real life

Pat

Because of pandemic times, but this is obviously something—

Susan

But we probably live like 45 minutes.

Pat

But this is something that obviously has to happen now. We're going to.

Tori

It will definitely happen.

Pat

I request Instagram photo of a jumping high five when it occurs. Just because I feel like that's the only way to commemorate the moment.

Susan

He's really assuming that I have that level of coordination.

Tori

I mean, me too. Maybe it's a ginger thing. Cause I walk into walls.

Pat

Maybe like just leg up. Maybe I also wear glasses, and I feel like I didn't get the memo, and I put contacts in today. This is my fault. This is my fault.

Susan

We will attempt it and we'll take a video for the failure.

Pat

I'm so prepared for that. I'm so prepared for that. Is there anything that you guys do in this pandemic world that people can jump in that are interested that they would be able to get some exposure with you guys? Ask questions, anything. Do you guys do Zoom meetings or anything like that?

Susan

Yes. They organize and this is all done with Carrie. She's the face of the Sound Girls. So she puts out pretty frequently different Zoom trainings. They also have the living history project going on where they interview kind of like the original generation of people, and they capture all of that. And that's all on YouTube and Facebook and all that jazz. So yes, there's tons of stuff. As far as the podcast specifically, if anybody would like to be on the podcast, they can hit us up because we are always looking to add to our list. Especially if they have something that they want to share. We've had a lot of people who specifically wanted to come on so they could promote their side project, like diversify the stage or amplify her voice. And so it was, it's awesome to have those collaborations because then we can use our outlet to help them expand, you know, their outlet.

Pat

That's awesome. That's so cool. So I want to, uh, I'm going to start with Tori. Do you have a moment that you were in the Sound Girls doing things where you were like, “Man, I am here. This is awesome.” Did you have, you had that moment and if you have, which I would assume you have, what was that moment for you?

Tori

So it was actually my interview with Susan and Becky, and I went in, and I was, I you know, I, the nerves were flowing and I, after that interview, just. I was filled with such positive—and I mentioned it earlier—positivity, and joy, and like, I just felt my whole body felt light. Like I felt like this is something that I'm meant to be, you know, meant to do. And it just, every single interaction with the ladies since then has just been a continuation of that and my, um, my passion has always been to empower, you know, up and coming women in the audio industry and just to see how all of this. Perfectly, you know, comes together is just, um, it's such a blessing, and it's such a gift and, but yeah, it was that initial meeting for me, uh, initial interview where I just knew, yeah, this feels right.

Pat

Dude, I'm gonna cry. That was beautiful.

Susan

Yeah.

Pat

That was beautiful. What about you Susan?

Susan

Well, I'm going to answer, but first I want to, I do want to plug that. Oh, plug, plug away. Becky and I recorded our interviews with our new host and co-host, and that's actually going to be one of our episodes is some clips from those shows.

Pat

Oh, they don't even know.

Tori

All of our mistakes. Oh my gosh. I listened to it. I'm like, “Oh, Tori, you stumbled on that. Oh, no one's going to hear it.” Oh, trust me.

Susan

So we were using that as one of our special episodes because we thought it would be fun to introduce them and to give us our graceful exit, you know? Um, as far as the, the Sound Girls part, I think it was when. So meeting Becky Campbell in general was kind of awesome.

Pat

Your brain exploded a little bit.

Susan

She's so cool. She's just such a cool lady. And, uh, to become friends with her and stuff. Cause she worked with me for a little while, um, at Full Sail and then to see her at the Sound Girls thing, she invited me, I just started coming to those meetings with her. And then when, um, Michelle Sablecheck Pantinato, she was in town.

Pat

Such a good name.

Susan

Um, and I was like, Oh, I'm going to go to the Sound Girls. And I met her and I was like, Oh, Oh, you're one of the, you're the other one. Yeah. And I got to talk to her cause she was, uh, she was writing her book, um, and her, she has a web series of mixing music live. And so she was in the process of writing that when I met her, and I was like, this is so freaking cool. And being an educator, you know, working for years doing that, it just. Felt natural to become more involved and be able to like, you know—

Pat

Sponge it up.

Susan

Just share the wealth of knowledge, all the knowledge.

Pat

That's awesome. That's so cool.

Susan

I was a blog writer for them for two years before I started the podcast too.

Pat

So if you had to, this is also for both of you, if you had to give advice to a young lady that was looking to get into this industry, what would some of those starting points be Susan? I want to start with you.

Susan

That is a question that we ask every single one of our interview people.

Pat

Um, am I doing a good job? I feel like I need to ask, am I okay at this?

Tori

Two thumbs up.

Susan

We're laughing. So that's always a good thing. Uh, can I pass to Tori? While I come up with my smarter answer.

Pat

Uh Tori, we're going to put you on the spot.

Tori

Okay. Uh, sure. Why not? Um, so advice that I would give, um, to someone, uh, to a woman, uh, in our industry, I would say, you know, take hold of what your dreams are, and don't let any stereotype, don't let, uh, any preconceived notions, nothing get in the way of what you really want because anything is possible and it just takes a little bit of effort and just to be there at the right time, the right place, find people that you can latch onto someone who looks at the future of, um, you know, looks at their legacy and, you know, looks at the future of the industry that they're in and wants to see it succeed and wants to see, um, you know, that legacy get passed on to the next generation. And I think it's so important to train your replacement because no matter how good you think you are, um, the thing is, is that there's always someone out there that's going to know more than you, or, you know, it's going to have that little gem, that little piece of knowledge that you don't have. And the beauty of working together as a team is that you have those strengths and weaknesses, um, that all come together and it, you know, forms this beautiful product. Um, but, you know, just, you never know, like the next person that comes up to you may be, you know, super successful. I mean, maybe the next, you know, touring A1, I don't know, for Cirque, who knows? And, but they won't be doing that unless if you say yes to them that yes, I will teach you how to run that console or yes, I'll teach you how to, you know, wrap that XLR or whatever it is, something so simple, but just, um, the idea of mentorship is, you know, at the core of, you know, is a gift that we can give to others. So, you know.

Susan

And you can't move up if you are the only one that can do that job, right? So if you train your replacement, like you said, you can have a vacancy and yourself to move elsewhere, which is also really positive thing.

Tori

Yeah. I, I think I went around, I think I answered a little bit and then didn't answer and then went on a tangent.

Pat

No, I think you answered it beautifully. And I, I, it reminded me honestly of, and I don't know if you guys have watched this, but, uh, Ted Lasso on Apple TV in the first episode, it's wonderful. In the first episode, um, he's walking out of the building at night, having worked a full day of his being a head coach of this football team. Uh, and the owner calls over to him and she's like, “Oh, are you burning the midnight oil?” And he looks at her and he says something that I think will stick with me for the rest of my life is “The harder you work, the luckier you get.” And that everything you just said, Tori kind of made me think that, that the harder you work, the more questions you ask, the more you're asking to do, the luckier you get and, um, not to step on what you said, cause it was amazing and beautiful and wonderful, but that I just had that like epiphany moment where I was like, God, my oh Tori's like Ted Lasso. She's speaking truths.

Tori

All the truths. I do like Ted Lasso.

Pat

Yeah. You have to watch Ted Lasso. It's so good.

Tori

You haven't seen Ted Lasso. Okay. So that's your project. That is your project. You watch Ted Lasso. I'll watch Hamilton.

Pat

They're about the same, about the same length. So what, if you had to give advice to a young lady, what would your advice be?

Susan

I frequently have to do this.

Pat

That's true.

Susan

So like to, to put it and narrow it down. Um, one of the things that I really emphasize with my students of any gender or whatever, uh, just anyone new coming up is that every single person has something to offer. So even if you are struggling with wrapping XLRs, which is something that I do teach and I've got three different ways to, to show kids how to do—

Pat

The over under, you have to do the over under.

Susan

It's all over under, but there's different techniques and how to get there. Yeah. So, uh, they, everybody has something to offer. We are, we are all lifelong students. We're always learning something new or discovering some like new technology or just even something that you've been doing all your life. Now they have a new way to do it. Right. And the younger generations are usually the people who are telling me about some of that stuff, like, “Oh, did you hear of this new thing?” I'm like, no. And then they'll pull it up. I'm too old for a lot of that stuff, but, um, they've showed me such amazing things, like they'll get these, um, little random DJ controller things and program them with sound effects to have like a sound effects board or program them to, uh, they're not meant for DMX, but they rigged it somehow. And now they can control the lights with this little $50 thing. So like they do all of these like super innovative projects because they're young, and their minds aren't clouded with some of like, you know, the mid-thirties and beyond stress that you have in your life.

Pat

All those good things.

Susan

Yeah. Um, so I, I want younger people to, although I think saying yes and listening and learning as much as possible is important. I think they should also not be afraid to bring what they have to the table as well.

Pat

That's awesome.

Susan

And then the second thing that I, I recently told a high school student, which may or may not have been in my best judgment, um, to use this phrase, but I told her, uh, do no harm, but take no shit.

Pat

Yes. All about it.

Susan

And then I was like, wait, how old is this kid? It's fine. She goes to public school. It's, it's all good.

Pat

She heard worse. She's heard worse.

Susan

But that was, I want, I needed her to know that, like do what you're going to do, but don't—

Pat

If you put that on a shirt, I will buy it right now.

Susan

It's not my quote.

Pat

But like, if you put your name at the bottom, like Michael Scott does, you're like anonymous also Susan.

Susan

I think that's important because I spent so much of my life trying to please other people and just get trampled on if I was too meek or too bitchy or whatever it was. So do no harm, take no shit.

Pat

I love it. I love it.

Susan

Sweet, simple.

Pat

It's great. Well, uh, to wrap everything up in a nice, beautiful, pretty bow, um, where, if the people are looking for more information on the Sound Girls podcast and organization, can they find this information?

Susan

Everything is on soundgirls.org. Um, the whole soundgirls.org website has resources on a variety of subjects. So, uh, live, live sound. If you want to be a monitor engineer, there's blogs and stuff on that tour managing. Uh, and then they also have an entire section dedicated to resources for, uh, sexual harassment issues and what the laws are in different states and what, you know, resources that you can do if you do have an issue like that and who to reach out to. So, uh, and then we also have, um, I've moderated some webinars and stuff like that as well. So they try to encompass it. I do want to say that don't let the name Sound Girls deter anybody from going because there is—the whole point of the organization is to make space for people who don't normally have room at the table. Right. So we want it to be accessible to everybody. We're not trying to exclude anyone. So don't let the name fool you into thinking it's only geared toward women. It's definitely a little more on that dial that way.

Pat

Yeah.

Susan

But most of the information, if not 90% of it is based on equipment and just in general stuff that everyone can find value in.

Pat

Yeah. All I'm hearing is that I can be a Sound Girl in my heart, and that's all I want.

Susan

You can be a Sound Girl.

Tori

Welcome to the car.

Susan

Welcome. Now you are.

Pat

God. my Oh I need to go find glasses to put on. Hold on. Uh, thank you ladies so much for, for coming and talking with me and talking about the Sound Girls. It's been wonderful. It's been amazing. Thank you for being on Sound Connections. And again, congratulations for being Florida's finest podcast. Can we just get another word for that? I just feel good about it. Um, but no, thank you guys so much. I appreciate it and, uh, we'll see you guys next time.

Susan

Thank you.

Tori

Thank you.

Susan

It's awesome to be invited. It feels like we're fancy.

Pat

I mean, I feel pretty fancy. I feel pretty fancy.

Tori

So fancy.

Pat

So fancy.

And that will do it for another episode of Sound Connections. I would like to thank the Sound Girls, Susan and Tori for coming out. I would like to congratulate them on their victory in Florida's finest podcast, and I hope to talk to them again soon guys. Don't forget. This is all sponsored by Shure in Mainline Marketing in Winter Park, Florida. Have a good one, everybody.