Interview with Mark Johnson, Part 2

Mark talks to us about his career working in Marketing with Meyer Sound, and his time as an editor and freelance writer for industry magazines like Primedia and Production Media. Mark also dives into his time spent with Full Sail University as the Program Director for Show Production, mentoring the next generation of students who are ready to push the AV industry to all-new levels.

About Mark Johnson

Mark Johnson is a retired AV industry legend from Casselberry, Florida, with nearly 50 years of experience in various fields including audio production, sound design, production management, broadcast audio, marketing, and public relations. Mark holds a Bachelor's degree from Clark University, where he majored in self-designed Expanded Cinema (experimental filmmaking). Throughout his career, Mark has designed loudspeaker systems for multiple Montreux Jazz Festivals, served as the editor of Sound and Video Contractor magazine, and contributed to Church Production Magazine with numerous articles and audio product reviews. Outside of work, Mark enjoys photography, producing his podcast "Above All, There's Hope: My Journey with Prostate Cancer," restoring a 1975 Airstream trailer, and traveling. He is most proud of his career and the friendships he has developed along the way. Connect with Mark at https://www.aboveallthereshope.com and listen to his podcast on Google Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, and Apple Podcasts.

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Welcome back to another episode of the Sound Connections podcast. This is part two of our conversation with Mark Johnson. If you haven't yet, make sure to check out that episode where Mark spoke with Clinton about his early days in the AV industry, working for places like Opryland and getting to work with award-winning musical acts like Anita Baker. In this episode, Mark speaks more about his experiences working with Meyersound, his time spent as an editor and freelance writer for industry publications, and his time spent as program director for show production at Full Sail University, where he has had the chance to mentor and develop the next generation of talent heading out into the AV industry.

Don't forget to leave a rating and review for the Sound Connections podcast on Apple Podcast, and you can now leave a rating on Spotify. Leaving a rating after each episode is the best way to let us know that you like the show, and can help new people find us. Always a good thing. And alright, enjoy the show!

Mark

The HD1 story was kind of cool because we had developed them, and even in the factory, and those that were kind of deeply involved in the production and development of them, or development and production, were just kind of like, these things are amazing. These things are pretty darn good. And we had had some friends who were local recording engineers and things like that come in and say, yeah, these are good. And I was in charge of marketing at the time, and I said, well, we've got to get these guys who are nice guys, and they're good guys, and they're locally known, but we've got to get some nationally or internationally known people involved with this so they can endorse them. And they said, “Well, who?” And I said, well, “Maybe we could get like Roger Nichols.” And they said, “Could we get him?” And I said, “We could try.” And I kind of had an ace up my sleeve because Roger was married to a friend of my ex-wife's who was still my wife at the time. They used to sing together in a trio. And so I got home from work and I said, “Hey, can you call Connie so I could talk to Roger?” So she did. And then she said, “Connie, actually, my husband wants to talk to your husband.” So I talked to him for a little while. And he said, “Yeah, I've used the Meyer speakers at Stevie Wonder's studio. And I've used them around.” And I said, “Well, we have some new studio monitors that we think are pretty good. And we would love your opinion of them.” So it took a while for us to kind of coordinate getting him out there. We got him out to the factory. And he spent the day with us. And we took him all over different rooms. We took him to the demo room, which was acoustically treated. So he said, “Yeah, they sound pretty good. OK, well, let's try them here.” We took him in a place where we could simulate kind of like a mixing desk and see what would happen in terms of reflections off the console and this and that and the other. And one of the things that Roger liked to tell was we had our CP10 equalizer. And he said, “Do you have like a high quality, high resolution equalizer?” We said, “Yeah, we do.” So we set it up there. And he kept adjusting and kept adjusting. And he goes, “OK, there. That's what sounds right to me.” And then we all looked at the EQ and it was all back to zero and all the settings and he goes, “OK.” And then he left. You know, he left, and it was like, OK, this is kind of weird. You know, he just said, yeah, they're kind of all right there. Yeah, they're. And Helen called me and she said, “Well, what do you think?” And I said, “I'm not sure. I think he liked them, but. And he left and, you know, he wasn't didn't seem as taken with them as we all were.” Yeah. And so it was kind of, you know, it was kind of disheartening. And about a week later, he called me back and he said, “You know, I keep thinking about those speakers, and I need them for a project that I'm working on.”

Clinton

Kind of like that first kiss thing.

Mark

Yes, exactly. And so I said, I said, “Well, Roger, what you heard were prototypes.” So that literally the amps and the processing were in a rack.

Clinton

All right.

Mark

You know, at this point, separate from the speakers. Yeah. And the HD ones, you know, when they hit the market were self-powered. And that was always the intent. But I said, and besides, John never lets—John Meyer never lets any prototype out of the factory for any reason whatsoever. And he said, “Yeah, but you know, I'm working on this project and I have to….what I have to do is take mixes from all over the place.” Other other mixes, other tracks,

Clinton

Other studios. Oh, yeah.

Mark

Even mixes from, you know, lesser quality recording things. Yeah. And put them all together in this record that I'm working on. And I said, “I don't know, let me go ask John.” So I told John, he said, “Yeah, we could do that.” It's like, you know, we're passing out because he's so we—we pack up everything and I literally have to fly it down to the village recorders in Southern California and go in and set it up for him. And then he was going to, you know, do the mix and then pack them up and send them back to me. And the project was Ricky Lee Jones’ Flying Cowboys album.

Clinton

Very cool.

Mark

That was produced by Walter Becker. And so, you know, at that point, then it just our relationship with Roger really started taking off. And those that knew him or knew of his career, not only was he a great recording engineer, but he was also a nuclear scientist. So he latched on to SIM right away. So he also had a SIM machine that he would carry around to various locations so he became a huge supporter of Meyer products, too, as well. So in my time at Meyer Sound, which was a span of 17 year period, which was [a] great, great educational time for me in and just in the world of—and if this was actually one of their ads, but the art and science of sound. You know, I really learned a lot about both during that time. And for me, it was a fabulous time. I met a lot of my musical heroes. I was invited to jam once on stage with Steely Dan, but I don't play anything well enough to do that, you know, so I had to say “Thank you, but it would definitely bring down the level of your performance.” One one day I was in New York and I did demos in the morning for stage monitors for Lou Reed. And in the evening I met Les Paul, you know, and Herbie Hancock, George Duke, just some of these amazing, amazing musicians and people too. Tuck and Patty who are lesser known, but still incredible, incredible musicians. And it was just a really interesting time for me.

Clinton

I think that was an interesting time in our industry too. A lot of companies were up and coming then. And the fact that directly you worked with John Myers like, you know, fast forward a bunch of years, I don't know if you can just call up John or Helen. I think that's cool. And I think everything now has become a little more commercial. And even on the artist side and working directly with them, I think it's not quite what it was in those days.

Mark

It's definitely, the industry has changed. And I tell this a lot to the students. Buford Jones, who's another well-known name in the world of live audio, and Dana, where I work too, we all come from the early days of live sound. Where literally the first mixers I used were Shure M67s bussed together. And using the vocal master columns and things like that, Buford and Dana all have stories of really kind of a rough and ready, and they've used the term kind of cowboy, where it's just kind of go in and you do things that we wouldn't think of doing anymore. And I even watched the Woodstock movie and saw people on the top of skyscrapers scaffolding towers without any safety gear. And it's like, yikes, you know? And so it's changed a lot. And I tell students that it's, when people used to think, when they have those, what my parents think, what my friends think, and what really happens, cartoons and things like that are memes. I tell them now, it developed and it grew through stages and it's quite a noble industry and a noble profession. And the people in the profession now are very serious about what they do and what kind of jobs they do. They're there to do a good job. They're there to work hard. And as an industry, it's become, for lack of a better word, more brutal. It's harder to get a job. Well, maybe not now because of the boom, the post-COVID boom, but you really have to prove yourself. You have to have a ton of soft skills, like good interpersonal relations, ability to talk to people and communicate well. And you have to, ultimately you have to really know your craft. And there's so much behind it these days. You just can't kind of go in and wing it anymore. You know, you have to.

Clinton

I would agree with that. I think also, I think, you know, all these things were developed since the 70s and the 60s and the 70s and the 80s. And so our tools to do our job have gotten way more complex, sophisticated, solve a lot of problems, all the problems that you encountered back then before SIM existed. And so I think, which has allowed us to make the productions better and more sophisticated now, you know, I say post-COVID, we're not really post yet, but that's bringing a whole nother level of complexity to, you know, I've heard, we're in this experienced economy now where everybody wants this incredible experience. So our shows are like that. So therefore the people that are, the new people coming up into these shows and guys like you that have been in the industry as long as you have, and I'm, you know, about half as much, but we bring all this experience and we learn the hard way and the people up and coming have to learn how to use these tools and understand what's at stake on any show and really take it to heart, right?

Mark

But their gestation period is much shorter now because they have things at their disposal, like Full Sail, and people who have years and years and years of experience.

Clinton

Those things weren't there back, right?

Mark

Yeah, yeah.

Clinton

Yeah, so it makes sense. It makes sense. And also I think, you know, in those days, people probably wouldn't have ever dreamt of being a sound guy. Like, you know, you were supposed to be an accountant or a lawyer or a doctor or, you know, AC technician, whatever it was, bricklayer, like what your parents did. I just think people didn't really think of it, but now it's, you know, maybe partly the internet, partly just productions. People know us out there and Full Sail, of course, being kind of a pioneer, really. What is it, 40 years now?

Mark

Yeah, 40.

Clinton

Yeah.

Mark

42, I think.

Clinton

So really pioneering, really, if you consider that. But really when, you know, 20 years ago or 22 years ago when I was there, you know, I kind of stumbled across it because my sister wanted to go to a school like that. And, you know, when she first brought that idea to me, I'm like, “Oh, there's no school for that.” And, oh, yeah, there's actually a couple, you know. But, yeah, so 17 years at Meyer, so what prompted the change there?

Mark

You know, it's really interesting, and I love John and Helen, and they're great people. And I don't know if they're gonna hear this or not, but those of us that had been with the company for a long time, because when I joined the company, I was employee number 46. So they had had 46 employees in the company before me, still kind of young and still kind of growing. And when I left the company, there was like over 225 employees. So during that time period, it had grown, you know, immensely. And we used to refer to John and Helen as mom and dad sometimes, you know, not necessarily in front of them to their face, but it's just like, you know, but just like any family, sometimes it's like, okay, it's time for me, time for me to move on. And I had a friend in the industry who was a publisher of a lot of magazines: Mix, Sound and Video Contractor, Electronic Musician, and some other ones. And again, the whole networking thing, he's a guy that I had met years before and had a professional relationship, developed a friendship relationship. And he called me up and he said, “Hey, why don't you come work for me and run one of my magazines?” And I'm thinking, I was not an English major. Why, you know, he wanted me to be the editor. And he said, “Well, there's two kinds of editors. There's ones that know the English language and can deal with that. And we have one there. But the other kind of editor that we need is the subject matter experts. So ones that know the industry, things like that. And that's what we need for this particular magazine.” So I said, “Okay, that sounds like fun.” You know, and my current wife and I, we always kind of joke, we're up for an adventure. I hadn't met her at that point, but I was, “Okay, time to try something new.” And so I went over there, and it was before everything crashed in 2008. So I guess this was maybe around 2003, something like that. And so, but things were still starting to run kind of lean and mean. So it was basically me as the editor, I had a managing editor, an assistant editor, and an art director, and everybody else was contract. And so us four people would effectively put the magazine together. I would come up with ideas or themes or things like that for an issue, and we would, you know, then hire the appropriate writers. And I had probably about four or five people that I depended on for good content. And then other people would pitch things to me and things like that. And so we did that. And in one of the very first meetings we had, the guy who was the managing—and all of them had been in the publishing industry. So I was kind of the outlier, but I was their boss. And one guy, the managing editor, was very wary of me. It's like, “He doesn't know us. You know, he's not a part of this, the publishing industry,” because now I am an outsider. But we're having kind of just a meeting kind of. And he says, “What I really would like to do is win this award.” It was a prestigious award for publications called an Eddie, E-D-D-I-E.

Clinton

Now, is that specific to industry or is that all publications, like magazine publications?

Mark

Magazine publications in general.

Clinton

So you're just competing with mainstream stuff you see in the supermarket?

Mark

Yes. All right. Yeah. Yeah. And I said, well, let's give it a shot. And we didn't really think about it much after that. And we just worked hard to put together the best magazine that we could. And fortunately I was able to win him over. I'm pretty proud of my work ethic. That I think I'd kind of proven in other aspects of the industry that I really focus hard. And we worked on the magazine, worked on the magazine. And I was able to do some really nice things with it. I thought were at that point—in a lot of the technical publications, you'd see pictures of gear, pictures of gear, pictures of gear. And I said, “What's the thing that's missing in this picture of gear in Iraq?” And it's like the people who drive it. In every situation, people drive these pieces of gear.

Clinton

People are always more interesting than gear.

Mark

So I started trying to feature people more in the magazine, which heretofore, and there were a lot of great editors of Sound and Video Contractor magazine. I mean, people who are well-respected in the industry. But just like everything else, it goes through peaks and valleys. So I really tried to bring my sensibilities. Like I had called one guy who wrote a lot of the—and actually he's a guy that I knew from Meyer Sound. He wrote a lot of the technical publications for Meyer. And I said, he was a contract writer as well. And I said, can you write some stuff for Sound and Video Contractor? Bruce Borgeson, who's a fabulous writer and has a really good grasp of technical concepts and things like that. And I remember I'm driving home stuck on the freeway in my car, and I was just thinking about, do they call it PA or do they call it sound reinforcement? And so I called him up. I was, I mean, I was stuck in traffic, and I call him up and I said, “Hey, this, what do you think about this idea? Let's do an article about ‘is it PA or sound reinforcement?’ and what the differences are.” And he interviewed all sorts of industry people, well known at the time and things like that. And after it got published, Bruce sent me a note and he says, “Hey, I made Wikipedia thanks to you.” And there was an article in Wikipedia and it referenced the article in the magazine.

Clinton

The difference between the two.

Mark

Yeah, and well, then the reference article in the magazine. So he got a reference in Wikipedia. So that's cool. So there was that, and then we were doing an article about an install in—I think it was the Hilton Hotel in Houston. That was actually, the installation was through a friend of mine, Bill Schuerman. And he had done the installation and he'd said, “Hey, I'd really like to…” And he's the guy that I met when I was at Meyer, right? And he said, “I'd like to feature this installation in your magazine if I could.” And so he flew me out there and showed me all the things. And it was a very cool installation. I mean, they did everything. They did the background music speakers. They did the main speakers in the ballroom. They had the latest in networking. Again, this was in the early 2000s. Yeah. You know, and the interconnectivity. And it was just a very cool installation.

Clinton

Probably some cobernet in there.

Mark

Probably. Yeah. But one of the things that they also did was LED or in this case, plasma wayfinding kiosks. All right. You know, that had and that was a relatively new thing. And so we set up a photo session for the cover for the magazine that had actually the owner of the consulting company. Yeah. Pulling behind a little suitcase with his girlfriend next to him, standing in front of—

Clinton

The kiosk.

Mark

Right. And that's the picture we took. And that became the cover of the magazine. And then we did the article, and we compiled the magazine and we do all the other things and we get back the magazine. And I had been with the company for about three years at this point. And we're me and my managing editor and assistant editor and art director kind of looking at this like, “This is pretty nice.” You know, everything kind of went together the way we wanted it to. And it looks good and it reads well. Let's enter this magazine in the—

Clinton

For the Eddie.

Mark

For the Eddie award. And so we did. And we all promptly forgot about it. And then sadly, the industry was starting to crash. Right. At that point. So it wound up that they laid off everybody in my staff. So my managing editor, my assistant editor and my art director, she got—the art director got transferred to another magazine and the managing editor and assistant editor got laid off. I inherited some staff that all had some other magazine responsibilities. And so it was a very sad time. And it's just like, “Oh, man, I was just getting, we were getting in the groove.” And so I had hired back my assistant editor for a contract thing. So I said, “Well, let's just meet at your old desk and we'll talk about it.” And so we're sitting at her old desk, and she noticed that the message light was on her phone. And she says, I'll see if my access code still works. It still works. And she said, “Oh, I think this is something for you. I'll forward it to you.” So she forwarded up to me, and we finished our discussion and things like that. And so when I went back up to my office, I picked up the message and it was a message from Mr. Johnson or— “my name is so-and-so. I'm calling about the Eddie Awards and your entry. Please call me back.” It's like, oh, OK, all right. So I called him back and they said, “Yeah, we just want you to know that your magazine is a finalist. And, you know, the final judging is going to happen this day and this time.” And I said, “Wow, OK, cool.” So the person, and I'll add that the person who hired me for that job had since left the company. And so while I was there, and he was there, you know, I'd approach him for, you know, information things and things like that. And he'd sit in on meetings, and he would say, “Well, everything's going the way I think it should go.” And he would leave the meeting and he was fairly good to work with. And the other management team that I inherited were more micromanaging and didn't trust me because I didn't come from the industry.

Clinton

Right.

Mark

And they were all based in Southern California anyway and thought that we were all kind of you know loosey goosey hippies up in Northern California.

Clinton

Right.

Mark

And and so I called called them up and said, “Hey I just got a message that we're finalists for”—no I sent an email… .“We're finalists for the Eddie Award.” And the woman who was my editorial director at that point had already won two or three in her career, and they were kind of unbelieving and astonished. You know, it's like you know we need more information, you know, and so I forwarded the information to them. And it's like, “Oh okay,” and it turned out in that particular category kind of like the Grammys, you know, the best, and that's kind of the relationship. The Eddie Awards are kind of like the Grammys or the Oscars for the publishing industry so it's pretty high level, and we were actually both in the same category for technical publications. Her magazine that she edited was in the same running so there were three magazines as finalists

Clinton

As finalists?

Mark

As finalists.

Clinton

Competing?

Mark

Competing. Hers, mine, and something from somebody else's. So it was kind of weird that my boss's magazine was in the same category. And so the art director that we had that we were using now lived in New York, so this was kind of the first early throws of people working remotely and things like that. So she went to the ceremony, and I said, “Be sure to call me with the results.” So she said, “Will do.” So on the day of the the award ceremony, she called me out and she said, “Well you won gold.” And [I] went “What!” You know, and then I said, “What about Cynthia?” It's so, “we like got bronze.” At that point then I gained a little more respect, but it was it was still a very proud moment for me in the world.

Clinton

Yeah that's incredible.

Mark

Yeah and then shortly after that I was let go, and then I went to work for Church Production magazine and I did that for about three more years, and the industry at that point was just kind of a so—I got let go of them.

Clinton

Yeah, yeah, well that was a tough period there

Mark

Yeah it was very tough.

Clinton

That's how you ended up at Full Sail after that?

Mark

Kind of. I did at that point—I just did a lot of freelance production work, freelance writing, and editing and you know.

Clinton

Where do you live in, where you live at?

Mark

Northern California, still in Northern California. I had…at the point that I got let go from Son and Video contractor was also the same point that I got divorced, and so then I was single, and I just was renting a small house. And then, and then, I met my current wife, and then we got married, and we were living still in Northern California, and I was just doing freelance work and stuff like that and writing. I set up an office in the house that she had owned, and we, you know we existed. And back in my Meyer days—early in my Meyer days—I had heard about a school that was forming in Central Florida, and well they had just formed but they were starting to do some live production education.

Clinton

I kind of remember when all that was starting.

Mark

Yeah so I was at a trade show actually in Europe, and I saw that Full Sail was attending they were at the trade show they had a booth at the trade show, so I went over there and Gary Jones was there, and John Phelps was there, and I introduced myself, and “I said I'm from Meyer Sound and I'd really like to, you know, to do a demo for you guys.” And, they said, “Well the guy you need to talk to is Dana Round. He's back in the States but here's a contact number.” And so when I got back to the States I called and set up a time to do a demo, and we did a really big extensive demo with live sound recording stuff. And yeah, developed at that point a great relationship with Full Sail. John Meyer had come out a few times and given presentations and we had you know set up one of their studios—Studio A at the time—and Dana had bought a bunch of the PA equipment, and he had an MSL3 system that they'd used. One of their early uses was for a Stevie Wonder gig that they had done out in the parking lot. And over the years again, networking, I just kind of kept up a relationship with Dana. So flash-fast forward to you know mid mid 2000-s and I'm writing an article about technical education for Church Production magazine. I didn't work for them any longer, but I was contracting my services for them. And so one of the organizations they wanted me to contact was Full Sail. So I called Full Sail, talked to their PR person, and I said “Oh by the way is Dana Round still there?” and she said “Yeah he's actually going to be the one that answers all of your questions that you just sent me.” It's like “Oh cool, tell him Mark Johnson says hello.” So about 20 minutes after I hang up with her my phone rings and it's Dana. So we catch up, found that our lives had taken kind of—our personal lives had taken kind of similar paths. And he says, “Well what are you doing?” and I said “I'm just doing freelance production and freelance writing and editing things like that.” And he says, “Why don't you come work for me out here?” and “I said are you serious?” And he said, “Yeah absolutely? I have a position open that I'm hiring for.”

Clinton

Another adventure.

Mark

Yes, so I asked my wife, and we were relatively newlywed at that point. It's like, “What do you think?” And she goes, “I'm up for an adventure.” So we pack up everything and move out here and that was about 10 years ago.

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Clinton

Yeah, so tell me a little bit about your time there. I mean we've been going a little while now, but it's—I'm having fun. And it’s super interesting to me, so hopefully—I'm sure our audience thinks the same thing.

Mark

So I hope so.

Mark

But who is this old fart blathering on?

Clinton

I almost think you could almost do a separate podcast on just, you know, 10 years at Full Sail. Yeah. I mean just because, you know, I believe in them, you know, as an alumni and as, you know, a vendor and just, you know.

Mark

Well your support has been phenomenal. I appreciate that.

Clinton

And, you know, but anyway, so and, you know, I know lots of people that have gone there, and I think it's a great place. And then of course to have people like you working there, I think that's really what it, I mean, regardless of what it is, whether it's you're writing an article about an install or, you know, a teacher, it's always about the people, right? I mean, the people that make things great, it's not this microphone, right? I mean, it's a great microphone, but….

Mark

How you use it, who's going to use it and how are they going to use it?

Clinton

Yep. So, so, so you pack up, you move to Florida, which is culturally a lot different than Northern California.

Mark

Yeah, just a bit.

Clinton

You know, and, and so now did you come in as, cause you're the program director. Did you come in as a program director?

Mark

Yeah.

Clinton

Okay. Yeah. So, and was show production, now I can't remember, was show production already up and running? I know we, when I was there, we had a show production class we did for a month or two.

Mark

Right. Show production.

Clinton

But there's a new, that's a whole program that was—

Mark

Right. It started out as a workshop within the recording arts.

Clinton

Yep. That's what I did. Yeah.

Mark

Then it grew into an associate's degree. And then about two years before I got there, it grew into a bachelor's degree. And, and Dana was, I guess, officially or unofficially the program director for the show production program because he started it.

Clinton

That's right. Yeah.

Mark

But then he became the education director for the audio arts, which under his auspices was show production.

Clinton

Yeah.

Mark

Recording arts and music production. Since then, audio production has started under his wing. And that's, that's, I think, a six year old program at this point.

Clinton

So, yeah. So, so he needed, he needed help because that's a lot.

Mark

Yeah.

Clinton

So as he, as he got promoted to this new position overseeing everything, you came in and, and, and run his show production.

Mark

Right.

Clinton

So what, what's that been like? I mean, you know, totally different than running shows and, you know, flying around the world with Anita Baker.

Mark

Yeah.

Clinton

You know, and, and, and certainly the writing, I mean, you know, so now we're educating younger, well, most of them younger, you know.

Mark

Majority.

Clinton

Yeah. But people that are, that are aspiring to work in our industry or improve their skills, right?

Mark

So it was, you know, I would say that's probably the biggest change that I've made in the industry. And in one sense, I've prided myself to have a background enough that kind of allowed me to move around in the industry. Cause regardless, I’ve always kind of stayed in one aspect of the industry or the other. I've never really kind of left overall. But, and the way things work at Full Sail, you get hired because of your industry experience.

Clinton

Right.

Mark

You know, again, you're, you're a subject matter expert or an industry expert. But I find that it matters some because you have to have street credibility when you're talking with your instructors, which are all people with industry experience. But other than that, it doesn't matter. So I learned, and I'm still learning, the business of education.

Clinton

Yeah.

Mark

Which is, it's a whole other world. And it's been a big challenge for me to just learn about education because, I mean, never before have I talked about rubrics or program learning outcomes or course learning outcomes or some of the things that are...

Clinton

Which all relate to your accreditation and everything, right? Right. Which is super important.

Mark

Right. Yeah. Right. And so it's, you know, the things that we have to do to maintain accreditation and that have nothing to do with the world of production in any way, shape or form.

Clinton

Right.

Mark

So that's been the big challenge for me, which, again, I'm learning something, you know? Here I am, I'm 67 years old, right? And I'm still learning something. It may not be production industry related, but it's, I'm learning, you know, so I'm just keeping on learning.

Clinton

So, I mean, you know, so you've got the program director, you've got a course director, and then you've got your lab—

Mark

Lab specialists.

Clinton

Lab specialists, and of course, you know, you've got the students. So, you know, in my experience, you know, just knowing you over this time, your students still know who you are, right? So you're not just locked up in your office writing curriculums. I mean, you're still working with students, and, you know, I would hazard, you know, probably mentoring some of them in some ways.

Mark

Some, yeah. I mean, I am locked up in my office quite a bit, you know, sometimes more often than I like, but, you know, some students I get to get to meet with, and some students, you know, have challenges, and you know, you like to mentor them and help them along and. And other students have no challenges, and they're, you know, very high level students, and they assume high level positions, you know, once they get out and start working in the industry. You like, you like knowing them, and I kind of have a rule that I've stuck to, mostly. Is that, you know, I'm not going to be your Facebook friend while you're here, you know, once you graduate, and if you want to and you want to send me an invite, then, you know, I'll accept it, but I'm not going to be your Facebook.

Clinton

Keep it professional. Yeah, that makes sense.

Mark

But so there are, there are a number of them who have graduated, and, you know, next thing I know, so-and-so wants to be your friend, you know. So it's, so that's kind of gratifying. It's like, oh, they, you know, they remembered me or they thought about me or, you know.

Clinton

Also, I would say that that can be really gratifying to know that maybe you are a part of somebody's education that's gone off and become really successful, maybe, you know, on tour with, you know, you name the artist. So, right, you know, are there any students that stand out like that for you that you had a personal relationship with that have gone on and done some cool things?

Mark

There's a couple. Brandon Blackwell, pre-COVID, he was out with Lizzo, and I'm not sure who he's out with right now, but he's always very busy. But now he's endorsed by many manufacturers and has great relationships with a lot of manufacturers. And even interesting, sometimes I'll, you know, when something, he's done a post on Facebook and something pops up, I'll see people who I have as friends and industry colleagues, you know, in his, it's like, oh gee, I see that he met so-and-so.

Clinton

Yeah. So he knows a lot of the same people.

Mark

Yeah. Which is kind of interesting, but he's one. Kimberly Thomas, who's had kind of a circuitous route through the industry, but she's always been very smart and always worked really hard and done a really good job at some of the places that she's gone to. So it's, again, it's at this point in my career, I think it's important, you know, for me and gratifying to share the industry with, you know, the young people.

Clinton

Yeah.

Mark

I hate saying that sometimes, you know, you young people.

Clinton

Yeah.

Mark

But the younger people, or at least the people who aspire to be in this industry because it's, in an industry back when I started, when people really didn't think it was an industry. And I remember having a conversation with a guy who was an independent engineer for different acts and also did work with Jim Gamble for Gamble Consoles, which is, you know, which was one of the big touring consoles back in the day. I was talking to him and Kevin Kurecki was his name. And we were talking about the industry and he said, “Hey man, it's not an industry, it's a club.” And it's got that kind of vibe. Everybody knows everybody else, you know, and I think even though it's grown, it's still that way. Yeah. So just bringing up the people in this career that is once, you know, considered kind of a cowboy, you know, kind of a, you're a loner or you're, you know, some kind of outsider or something like that to where it's really come together. It's, as I said earlier, it's a noble profession.

Clinton

Yeah.

Mark

And the people in the profession care deeply about the jobs that they do and work to make sure that, you know, to use an old catchphrase, the show must go on.

Clinton

Yeah, yeah. I think it's great that, you know, you get to be a part of that. I sometimes think that maybe when maybe a little later in life, I think I would like to do more teaching, and you know, just mentoring. And I think it's a great thing that you're doing. And, you know, we try to do it a little bit with this podcast. I mean, it's Sound Connection, it’s connecting people. So we don't know who's going to listen, but there's going to be people out here listening that are hopefully able to draw, you know, either learn something from this conversation or get some inspiration from this conversation. You know, like I said, you do it every day. We just do it every two weeks.

Mark

But, you know, I think the thing is, you may just do this podcast every two weeks. But, you know, I know for a fact that you're a fairly frequent visitor to the campus. And I know for a fact that you've loaned your time, talents and treasures to the uh—to some of the things that we've done and helped students along.

Clinton

Yeah. It's always fun.

Mark

Yeah. And I think that that for some reason, those of us in this club, yeah, that's the way we feel as we kind of move along in the in the progression of our careers, maybe even more so than, you know, if you are a doctor or a lawyer or whatever, you know, we feel compelled to make sure that those who come after us are well equipped.

Clinton

Yeah, I think, you know, I think we're just—some of us are wired that way where we want to, you know, give back, you know. Maybe even I would imagine doctors and lawyers too, at some point, you know. There's some of them that want to make that time and give their knowledge. Right. And there's probably some that don't, but not there's anything wrong with that either. But I enjoy it. I get, you know, it gives me—I feel gratified when I'm able to do it. And, you know, even though I never love getting up and talking in front of a bunch of people.

Mark

Yeah, I hate it.

Clinton

Yeah, as much as I talk, you’d think I'd like to. I still don't love it. So, well, anyway, I want to thank you for coming today.

Mark

Oh, my pleasure. I mean, I'm honored that you would even consider me.

Clinton

This is great. I had a great time on this. So, you know, I really appreciate your time today and that you came out. And so I just want to say to the audience, you know, thanks for listening and, you know, get hope to see you here next time on our next episode of Sound Connections.